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Raised in Bakersfield, California, Clive Winn obtained a B.S. degree in law enforcement and a Master of Public Administration degree from B.Y.U. He was employed for many years as an F.B.I. special agent in various locations. As a church leader, he has served in numerous capacities including elders quorum president, bishop, stake president and mission president (Argentina). More recently he was called as a stake patriarch. During the podcast interview, Brother Winn briefly describes his interviews with a member of the Council of the Twelve and a member of the First Presidency prior to being officially called as a mission president. He further describes his joy in seeing how teachable missionaries typically are in receiving counsel from their mission president. As a patriarch (15:34), he has reaffirmed his conviction of the worth of every individual soul in the eyes of a loving Heavenly Father. He asserts that when you get a glimpse into peoples’ eternal possibilities you view them differently. We should all strive harder to treat each other in a way that recognizes the great potential that God sees in each of us. While employed by the F.B.I. Clive was often called on to train other staff members. He loved seeing the “light come on,” prompting people to change workplace or personal-life behaviors while becoming more enthusiastic and genuinely happy. The late Dale Carnegie authored world-renowned How to Win Friends and Influence People, plus How to Stop Worrying and Start Living, and other books related to interpersonal success skills. Brother Winn has been officially involved with the Dale Carnegie training program for four years. As a church leader, he periodically witnessed members rejecting callings and local church officers falling short of their potential success and responsibilities to serve. He observed ward councils having to repeat the same discussions about member needs without moving the ball forward. He learned that many of the principles he practiced and taught in his professional life and, more recently, in the Dale Carnegie courses can lead to more productive leadership and happier saints. He discussed five of those 30+ principles in a recent interview, summarized as follows:
1. Don’t Criticize, Condemn or Complain
(19:57): If we personally refrain from such tendencies in leading church units, quorums and auxiliaries we’ll treat people with greater dignity and positively affect the overall organizational dynamics. Exhibit confidence and belief in the people you lead so as to help them understand their enormous potential and have greater clarity as to why they should perform at a higher level. The leader must set the tone for a positive culture, recognizing that sometimes other ward leaders under his/her direction are unaware they are expressing negative thoughts. All ward or stake members and leaders will benefit greatly from knowing that their leaders are positive.
2. Give Honest, Sincere Appreciation
(20:32): Leaders often do not take time to consistently do this. Praise needs to be authentic and not for purposes of manipulation. Many people are “down” on themselves and a little reassurance goes a long way in rebuilding their faith and self-confidence. Don’t hesitate to send notes of commendation and gratitude. Look for opportunities to express appreciation from the pulpit to individuals, groups or congregations, including the recognition of small acts of service. Ward youth will greatly benefit from appreciation and positive reinforcement of specific things they have done well.
3. Smile
(31:16): Some people are smile-challenged, especially when nervous or tense. Smiling helps you feel more comfortable and does the same for those you lead. It eases tension. Young people feel more accepted by a leader who smiles, and are then more likely to consult the leader to discuss serious personal concerns or aspirations.
4. Strive to Learn and Use Each Member’s Name
(34:35): This is a very powerful tool. People feel remembered and important at the sweet sound of their own name. Some leaders are effective in using word associations or unspoken descriptive phrases to remember names. All can make diligent efforts in this regard. Don’t hesitate to ask people to repeat their name in being introduced, and even ask the derivation of their name and focus while they respond. You will realize dividends if you do not give up too easily on learning names.
5. Try Honestly to See Things From the Other Person’s Point of View
(41:02): It will help you greatly to better understand them. Get to know their background. Don’t prejudge or quickly categorize people. Seek constructive input from fellow ward/stake/branch leaders who know more than you do about special circumstances involving members in need. Empathy and love will follow. In summary, leaders will feel more productive, fulfilled and helpful by following the Spirit and employing Christ-like principles in person-to-person interactions as they seek to lift, inspire and help others “come unto Christ.” Resources: DaleCarnegie.com. Find a franchise in your area. Numerous corporate HR departments will gladly obtain information or provide training for employees who ask. Online courses are also available. The two Dale Carnegie books referenced above are also available in a combination edition.
I wish church leaders were all mandated to go through a Dale Carnegie course before they take their calling. (or at least an LDS version of this training.)
These simple principles make such a deep difference in our calling.
You know, when you’re in a private presidency or bishopric meeting, you have to talk about people when you’re considering callings. And like this podcast said, we find ourselves talking negatively about people that seems so unfair because they are all good saints that are trying. This has always bothered me. (one reason it’s bothered me is because I might be and most assuredly have been that person that a leadership team was talking about negatively)
In fact, other than personal worthiness and seeking for the Holy Ghost, these are the principles that make all the difference as a leader in the church.
Let’s do a 6 part series and go trough all 30!
While the principles espoused by Dale Carnegie are not rocket science, it is surprising how often we neglect to put them into practice. We should find ways to frequently remind ourselves and each other of these valuable leadership attributes.
Great episode. I have a concern (dare I say, criticism), though, with the first principle: “Don’t Criticize, Condemn, or Complain.” The principle, itself, may be solid (I don’t know, never having tried to implement it), but in my experience, it could be used to silence, if inadvertently, dissenting voices in a council. I see no problem with “don’t condemn” and “don’t complain,” but “don’t criticize” is a pretty broad principle, and I think is problematic. If someone raises a suggestion or idea, and I see problems with it, I need to be able to express those problems with constructive criticism. Last year I was in charge of our ward Christmas activity, and I tried something new, and some things worked and some didn’t. I need the constructive criticism to improve. Merely saying “great job” isn’t going to cut it, because it means I’ll keep the bad stuff in place, thinking everyone loved it as it was. So I personally think there needs to be room for constructive criticism. But I loved the whole episode. Great suggestions and principles.
Adam, I see your point. It is tricky in a volunteer environment to offer constructive criticism. Some people are more open to it than others. Some may decided not to try again if they experience direct criticism. I think it depends to some extent on who offers it and in what context and the timing of doing it. In the LDS ward or stake setting perhaps the spirit of the Dale Carnegie principle about not criticizing could be interpreted to mean: Do send “you” messages that may come off as harsh. For example, “That just plain didn’t work,” or “What were you thinking,” or “Let’s not ever do that again” may not go over well at all if it was one person who carried the ball on the activity or project. If it was a whole group that fell short of the mark and you were part of the group, it’s a little easier to be direct. If you are dealing with an individual and you don’t wish to send a “you” message perhaps you could say: “I liked some things about how that went but I wonder if we/you should have considered xxxxxxxxxxxxx.” Or, “Did you also consider xxxxxxxxxxxx?” Even with those I think you have to know your audience and proceed with caution. In some instances you can ask the person how he/she feels it went and they may be their own worst critic, sparing you from having to send any message other than: “Yeah, that’s a pretty good point. I can see why you chose to do it that way but I agree that next time it will likely be better if……………………”